Monday, February 13, 2006

Feeder, reprised

Feeder, reprised

Well, I set up the scaffolding to try and take on the term Feeder and perhaps the concept of what a Feeding relationship can mean and ultimately(for purposes of the blog) where I come out on the whole thing.

I think the best way for me to try this out is to put a few scenarios together (some of which are admittedly a bit hypothetical) and give my reaction to each of them and then after trying that out a few times, see if I can express what my views are on the whole mix and see if I can perhaps generalize.

I’m surprised that there have been so few comments on the first post. Perhaps no one is reading the blog, or perhaps readers are a bit in shock, or, hopefully, the readers are waiting for my value judgments before they jump into the fray. In any event... on I go.

Gee, why does this feel so much like walking the plank.

Okay.. the first situation is a male Feeder who is feeding a female Feedee who is also a Foodee. The woman is already well over 500 pounds and has been gaining weight rapidly, say more than 50 pounds a year, for a period of time, whether with this Feeder or another or on her own. The woman at this point has an almost insatiable appetite resulting from eating huge quantities of food to keep gaining weight for some time, but recognizes that her body is reaching the point where walking, caring for her self and working are becoming increasingly difficult. She senses that with another 50 or less pounds she will be forced to quit her job and will find leaving the house on her own difficult and will be dependent on the Feeder for financial support, provision and preparation of her food, assistance in bathing and toilette and access to medical care. She also expects that shortly after this, additional weight gain will leave her essentially immobile and a prisoner in her bed.

There are really two scenarios here, in one the woman is upset/unhappy/scared about these consequences and in the other she welcomes and looks forward to these consequences. For me, it makes no difference, because in both of these cases I couldn’t in good conscience force, encourage or even enable a woman in this condition to continue with her gaining. In the situation where the woman doesn’t want these consequences to happen, and assuming I cared for and about her I would work with her to find a way to help her at the least stop gaining so that she could maintain her independence and mobility. My focus would not be to punish the woman or impose some diet or exercise regime on her based on my views of what would be best for her, but to help her to make choices that she considers best for her. However, if she continues to make bad choices for herself and insists on behaviors which would necessarily lead her to immobility I would feel obligated to disengage from that sort of a relationship. From what I’ve seen there are many cases where men have relationships with women who are Feedees or Foodees who love the women dearly and allow their love for the women to force them to enable the women they love to grow beyond a point where there bodies are mobile or healthy. These men take the view, in the moment, that to deny their women the food that the women crave, demand and in some cases seem to become ill without, is worse than giving them what they want. In my view, as painful as it would be, if the woman fails to act in her own behalf after coming to grips with the immobility end game of her Feedee or Foodee desires, the painful step of severing the relationship while she is still mobile, is less negative than continuing to enable the increasing fattening which will inevitably result in immobility and total dependence.

As a caveat I will note that I don’t generally find the concept of a woman who is immobile particularly sexy or arousing. Very fat women I do find very attractive, but only if they are mentally active, physically mobile(though aerial gymnastic ability is definitely not required) and strongly protective of their desire to maintain the highest degree of independence possible.

As a further note.. it doesn’t make a difference to me whether the woman wants to be fattened, is neutral to being fattened or is opposed to it but allows it to continue without a fight(whether due to her unwillingness to change the behavior that is causing her to head toward immobility or her unwillingness to resist the forcing, urging or enabling behavior of her Feeder). In all such cases I would consider the Feeder’s activities to be unacceptable, irresponsible and potentially criminal(though perhaps not in a strict legal sense at least morally criminal).

Okay.. situation two..

A woman of about 300 pounds loves to eat and wants to spend a year eating to her heart’s delight, after a long period of dieting and straining to maintain her weight at 300 pounds. She anticipates that she will gain weight, but she already exercises to maintain herself in good physical condition at her size and would expect to continue her conditioning as she gains weight. She has previously weighed as much as 450 pounds and knows from the past experience that she felt comfortable in her body until she weighed 400 pounds, but much beyond that she was uncomfortable and began to have more mobility and reach issues than she was comfortable with. The question, if I had a loving relationship with this woman would I enable her or encourage her to pursue her goal of spending a year heating to her heart’s content, while making sure that her weight didn’t exceed 400 and that she continued to maintain her fitness as she gained weight.

Again, let me note that in no situation.. at any weight would I ever consider a relationship in which I would force anyone to do anything(and that would of course include forcing someone to eat more than they want or any amount or anything they don’t want), even if the impetus for the forcing came from the woman(who might urge me to force her to get fat or to eat more than she’d ever eaten, etc.). I would find that kind of behavior, which in some ways is similar to the mind games of D/s(Domination and submission) repugnant to me. This doesn’t mean in the least that I don’t enjoy mind games or exploring boundaries, but to take this sort of mental exercise into the real world by forcing another person to eat or do anything is just not consistent with my internal makeup.

Anyhow… in the second situation, if the woman was a Foodee, but not a Foodie, I’d probably not be at all interested in participating in that sort of activity. Perhaps that’s a function of my interest in food, and in particular my enjoyment of great food in ample quantities, but no enjoyment of ample quantities of mediocre or tasteless food. Encouraging or abetting someone to eat large quantities of whatever food is convenient, or cheap or fattening would seem to be nothing more than fattening a steer or hog for market. And, I don’t find that at all interesting, arousing or exciting to me in any way.

However, if the woman is primarily a Foodie, but also secondarily a Foodee, I suspect with proper planning and monitoring and an exit strategy I might involve myself in such a project as a part of a loving relationship. The mechanics of how this would work out might be part of the relationship, both partners establishing parameters, planning activities, monitoring the weight gain to make sure that the experience is not so rapid as to be inherently unhealthy(putting aside the question of whether gaining any weight is unhealthy—and assuming from the setup that the woman knows that at 400 pounds she is healthy and sufficiently mobile for her needs), involving myself in the exercise component of the plan to assure that fitness goes hand in hand with the increased fatness, and modifying the behavior prior to reaching the “goal” so that her weight doesn’t overshoot the maximum set weight. I could definitely enjoy getting into the selection of food, preparation of gourmet meals, dining out at appropriate restaurants and generally sharing the joy of the eating within these well thought out and planned limits.

Having said that, I suspect that I would get less pleasure out of this sort of a relationship in the real world than one where the woman was at her target weight, and had adjusted her eating and exercise to an equilibrium state which could be sustained indefinitely. While the thought of a woman gaining weight is in some way arousing, I would find the woman at her larger size, healthy and fit much more sexy and arousing.

Not surprisingly, to me this is proving much more difficult than I thought.

A third situation.

A woman who weighs 150 pounds decides that she wants to get fat and wants me to help her grow to 300, 400 or 500 pounds, my choice. She wants me to help her do this as fast as possible because she’s always wanted to be fat and can’t wait.

My response… run like hell. In my view this a person who is a Feedee and not a Foodee or a Foodie. This is a person for whom the only currency is weight and she wants as much of it as she can get and doesn’t care how she gets it. While I know that many of the “Feeders” on the Internet would consider such a person the ideal for them, this person is of no interest to me.

So why? Several reasons. One, this type of behavior is inherently unhealthy. Gaining as rapidly as possible to achieve a number on a scale is totally arbitrary. Tying it back to a FA’s interest in numbers and the BBW’s suspicion that the FA is more interested in the BBW’s numbers than her, here, the woman isn’t interested in how her body will look, feel or behave, but in the single number(weight) that is her goal. I consider this sort of fixation on a number to be as repulsive as the FA’s focus on a woman’s numbers apart from a way to comprehend and appreciate the woman’s body and shape more completely. Two, for me so much of the pleasure about eating is tied into the quality and enjoyment of the eating. For me the weight is an effect of the eating of delicious, succulent, mouth-watering food(the cause). For such a woman the weight is the effect of her desire to gain weight. This seems to me to be an inadequate reason. Others will certainly have their views, but this certainly doesn’t float my boat. Three, the thought that this woman wants to cede control over the way her body will be changing and the size it will become to me or anyone else but her suggests real psychological problems. I don’t want to be the one playing God with anyone else’s body. And, I certainly don’t want to find out what other personal decisions and goals this person wants to dump on me. I suppose I could think of other reasons… but suffice it to say that reason four is it feels really icky.

Okay, on rereading this prior to publishing I thought of a few more. Reason five is that I probably wouldn’t find the woman attractive at 150 pounds(in a physical sense) and the thought that I would be gambling that a woman’s physical charms would only be interesting to me if she doubles or triples her weight sounds awfully stupid. What leads me to believe that she can or will gain the weight she says. Why focus on a woman who is far skinnier than I would normally find attractive when there are so many women of size already out there. What leads me to believe that I will find this woman attractive as she grows fatter. In any event it just seems apart from all the other reasons awfully stupid to gamble that a woman will gain weight and become more physically beautiful in my eyes when I can select a woman who is already a version of beauty and personality I enjoy right now. Almost like being given the choice between a thousand dollar in chips or a million dollar in chips at a casino when your goal is to leave with a million dollars. With the million dollars of chips (the existing SSBBW of my dreams) I have a sure thing. With the thousand dollar in chips (the skinny girl) I have to gamble that a whole series of bets will have to go my way in a row to reach the same result that is a sure thing with the million dollar in chips. The only reason that you would want to do the thousand dollars in chips is if you’re really more interested in the process(the feeding and fattening process), than in the result, and you’re a gambler who gets off on the risk of failure.

Fourth situation.

A SSBBW with whom I have a loving relationship enjoys having feeding weekends in which she wishes to be pampered and fed as part of a sensual, sexual and food oriented experience, including being fed to the point where she absolutely can’t eat a bite more. These weekends are special events and between them, any weight gained during these special interludes is lost, and fitness is maintained.

This sort of situation would turn me on greatly. It would satisfy any fantasy weight gain and feeding desires without bringing the countervailing distaste for anything which would harm someone I care for. It would allow a real world gaining experience with a woman I already find incredibly beautiful and abundant. And, this situation could be repeated over and over again, enjoying the moments without the additional baggage that immobility or uncomfortable weight gain would bring.

Someone commented to me that she found my tripartite grouping of Feedee, Foodee and Foodie to be variable within her at different times. Perhaps, like adjusting the three colors on a TV picture to vary the picture, the proportions of each of the three F****E’s varies depending on mood and time. I think that may be so, though I’m not convinced that’s necessarily true. But I had a different thought, and that was that my interest in a fat woman may be related to the proportion of these three F****E quantities within a fat woman. I can’t begin to imagine that I have a single ideal, because of course my feelings for a woman are so much more involved and complicated, and these aspects are merely a small component of what would attract me to a woman. Having said that I would imagine that the Foodie component would need to be a very strong component, the Foodee component would need to be more than zero and along a range, but not so great that it would be not subject to control if other issues, such as health and mobility required it. The Feedee component would not be zero, but quite small, like a spice, which could add a sense of sizzle or play or excitement to a relationship, but not so significant that it would overwhelm the greater enjoyment of the quality of the food or the eating experience.

So, what have I discovered. Let’s call them my guidelines of Feeding for me.

1. No forcing. This means no forcing physically, psychologically or any other means of imposing my will or desires onto another, whether they want to be forced or not.

2. No behavior which would encourage or even enable immobility.

3. The woman must have some components of being a Foodie, Foodee and Feedee, with the components as listed in decreasing order, and the Foodie component by far the biggest and the Feedee component being by far the smallest.

4. I enjoy food as a component in a sexually stimulating situation, though I don't believe that it would be the key or only element in a loving, caring relationship. It would be one component of the relationship which would need to bring mutual satisfaction.

4. Weight gain, while an interesting and potentially arousing event is more interesting in fantasy or limited real world situations than in an uncontrolled or uncontrollable long term situation. While I understand the attraction to weight gain and in a perfect controllable world would be interested in pursuing it under appropriate circumstances, I just don’t have much confidence in the ability to control it and find the fear of imminent immobility removes much of the real world attraction. I understand there are those who are less risk averse who are willing to come closer to a line of no return than I, but have to be consistent with my own comfort levels.

5. SSBBW’s who are comfortable at their current weights and are cognizant of signals that their bodies are sending them about their mobility, comfort and health are much sexier and attractive to me than women of any size who are more interested in growing their bodies than in enjoying the bodies they currently have in as healthful and exuberant way possible.

So, the final question. Am I a Feeder? What do you think?


Blogger Charlotte said...

It is tough to comment on wide ranging essays, especially when they seem to be well thought out. Either you just say 'yeah', which is a fair amount of effort, or you're going to have to go into just as long a response to disagree.

Not that we don't appreciate a well written essay, certainly your goal is to create 'yeah' responses!

The whole label does bother me though, since once you decide you're a feeder (or not), you feel like you have to assume characteristics of your own choosing or, worse, those of someone else. (And I mean all 'labels', not just 'Feeder, Feedee' etc.)

I've found myself acting against labels, and catching myself, wondering if I should change my bahaviour to match my 'label', or simply tossing the label aside. Usually it's time to change the label... keeping in mind the most common label is an expiration date...

13/2/06 11:54 AM  
Blogger emily pound said...

What I got from this is ... you love food ... you are turned on by a woman who also loves food ... you want to share some mind-boggling eating with her, which leads also to great sex ... you love very big women, but don't want a woman you're with to get so big she's immobile. I wouldn't say that's a feeder, from what I understand.

A couple questions, though. I think in the second scenario, one of the things you mentioned you'd need is an "exit strategy". I take it then that you are not looking at this attraction you have as leading to anything permanent, just a series of pleasurable encounters.

2nd question: I'd love to know if there are any 150-pound women out there who WANT to gain as much weight as possible. I suspect you'd have to look awfully hard for one of those. :-)

14/2/06 5:23 AM  
Blogger hugehugefan said...

Dear Charlotte:

Lanced right to the heart. The sum total of everything I've said and done is that the labels are too static for the fluidity of life and any label is merely a snapshot which captures a moment in the past which restricts activity in the future.

While that is true around the margins, I think that standardized terms or labels are very useful in many ways and I've found it useful to roll these labels around in my mouth and see how they tickle my taste buds. Of course tomorrow I may feel differently, but that's part of what makes life so interesting.

Somehow, I feel that a response of "yeah" is almost a failure. Part of the process of being out there and laying it on the line is having someone stand up and say that's totally wrong(or the same in more colorful language) and advancing the process of understanding through the interactive process. Could it be so simple that I ended the discussion. No... probably no one else read it and cared enough to comment.

14/2/06 12:22 PM  
Blogger hugehugefan said...

Dear Emily:

I think your summary of me is probably accurate. Certainly your summary is much terser than my bloated prose. Nothing like a great copy editor working with a wordy author.

In answer to your two questions.

1. Exit strategy was intended to refer to an exit strategy from the gaining regime, weaning the woman from the gaining mode to a stable, maintaining mode. No exit from the relationship was either intended or contemplated. The thought of fattening a woman to a point at which I lose interest and then ducking out is probably as repugnant to me as it is to you(I'd hope). None of this was intended as a love 'em and leave 'em style relationship.

This sort of situation where someone feeds and fattens someone else until they're "done with them" and the woman or man is now incapable of caring for themself and then fleeing is I believe one of the primary reasons that feeding has become such a hot button issue. And, I can't find words strong enough to express my displeasure, anger with and outright hatred for anyone associated with such behavior.

2. Calming down to answer your second question. I tend to agree with you that the odds of finding such a person who's still essentially skinny and wants to get super fat are small.(I was going to say between slim and none.. with slim having left town, but I resisted.. oops.. I guess I didn't resist). However, this profile is what many self professed feeders are looking for, if online dating posts, feeder web boards and chat room comments are reviewed. The feeders are as unreasonable in their hopes of finding such women as the women are in expecting that they will easily be able to gain weight from 150 on up to 300 or 450 or ... In my defense I did say that the scenarios were hypothetical, and perhaps not so realistic. So, I agree with you.

14/2/06 12:40 PM  
Blogger reallyfatsubfemme said...

very well thought out ... i agree with you on the labels and on the subtle differences between foodie, feedee, etc ...

while there are those out there that 'get off' on fat-ness to the point of immobility ... it really seems to me to be more of a fantasy thing ... i cannot imagine how life could be enjoyable for one who is imprisoned by one's own body ...

you certainly have given us readers lots to think about ...


18/2/06 3:03 PM  
Blogger Charlotte said...

Did we break your blog?

Waiting for another suggested entry?

I guess I need something on subject, so asking about the weather is out of the question. As would be geo-politics (though I am interested in where you stand on that...)

I'm at a bit of a loss I'm afraid.

What's your favourite attire for a BBW?

23/2/06 6:36 PM  
Anonymous anonymous ak said...

"3. The woman must have some components of being a Foodie, Foodee and Feedee, with the components as listed in decreasing order, and the Foodie component by far the biggest and the Feedee component being by far the smallest."

Okay, I am a real 'newbie' to this particular topic, although I have heard of feeders/feedees. I am a fairly openminded person, but I have to honestly say I would not be attracted to that kind of relationship.

Could you please explain the difference between "foodie" and "foodee?"

Please clarify a little more regarding your statement #3. Do you find this a requirement in a relationship, just as you describe it? What about someone who is happy wherever she is at and doesn't desire to gain weight?

I have to honestly say that I am not incredibly happy being my size. It has limited me so much in doing what I love doing, but perhaps that is just an excuse. I keep saying it is possible to be my size and still be really active, so perhaps I need to just get up and get going! I was larger at one point in time and it was much harder then than now to be physically active.

My family is genetically large. I will never be skinny, but I don't want to eat to be bigger either, even though I love food and enjoy eating it. Interesting though, it seems that I am really good satisfies me fore than a Jack in the Box meal (although I do enjoy them, okay?). LOL And, it seems to take less food to satisfy me. But that is just me. I don't really enjoy that overfull, overstuffed, I have heartburn now feeling. But, I do enjoy that wonderful just full feeling that you get after you eat a fillet mignon and those wonderful roasted potatoes followed by a sinful dessert that you can get at Ruth Chris Steakhouse (and I hear there are even better places than Ruth Chris...

One last thing: I am not at all referring to the incredibly romantic idea of feeding each other chocolate covered strawberries (for example). I've never done it, but think it would be a really nice end to a really nice evening...

4/4/06 3:11 AM  
Blogger hugehugefan said...

Dear Beth Amazonia

I'm sorry I didn't respond to your very thoughtful comment before, but I wasn't really sure what to say. I followed the links back to your blogs and found feelings and posts which were very different from the comments you posted on my blog.

Your comment on my blog was thoughtful and interesting. Your blogs while also thoughtful and interesting are related to a lifestyle which is not consistent with my goals or those I would enjoy existing with either as the subject or companion to such a lifestyle.

I wonder which if either of the two lifestyle choices or existences is your real life or fantasy reality.

Though I am confused by this dichotomy I invite you continue to participate and express your agreement, disagreement or different points of view in the interesting, civil and coherent fashion you did here.

5/4/06 10:50 PM  
Blogger hugehugefan said...

Ah, Anon AK... I sense you read the blog from more recent to older.. skipping the explanation of the terms, etc. in the earlier Feeder post.

And a further explanation of what I meant by my post of what I think I'm looking for.. I defer and prefer to stand with what I've said.. except to note that life is rarely as neat as one's own thoughts(which are also quite messy generally). Or as some general once said.. the best battle plan is usually worthless once the bombs and bullets start flying.

5/4/06 10:53 PM  

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