Eureka!!!
I think I've got it.
When I started with the Numbers posting I was trying desperately to deal with the apparent conflict between FA's who are focused on fat women's dimensions as expressed in numbers and the BBW's and SSBBW's discomfort with the persistent asking about numbers and creepy sense that the guys are more interested in the numbers than them.
I struggled with the numbers post and the responses I got, almost exclusively from women, were really useful and interesting. While there were a spectrum of view on the need for numbers, the appropriateness of asking about numbers and the feelings they have in being asked for or providing numbers, I sensed there was a common ground, expressed in different ways, but still a common ground.
All of the women expressed that when a relationship was cruising along and seemingly developing well in cyberspace but without a real life meeting, the first meeting in the flesh had an instantaneous poof event. At that first meeting something non-verbal took place. Some call it chemistry, some call it unnameable, others refer to it as getting a sense of the physical, but what sets it apart, an in my view seems to define it, is that there's no conscious, rational component to this event. Something below the self-aware consciousness, whether subconscious, physical, chemical or some combination of all of these things snaps into action and computes a non-verbal test score. Either the guy passes this or doesn't. Some say, I really liked this guy when we talked every day for a month or two online and on the phone.. but when I first met him.. poof, it was all gone. There was nothing there between us and all the time we'd spent getting to know each other was irrelevant.
Guys go through the same thing, but they do it or try to do it up front. If the girl passes this non-verbal, non-rational test, the guy pursues the relationship to determine if there is more than a chemistry attraction between them. And, with the internet, this usual pattern of relationship forming is altered due to the absence of Smellvision/3D cyber connections. And numbers or the interest in getting a woman's numbers is a mediocre substitute for the real world poof event that guys and girls experience. But, it seems to be the closest a guy can get up front to try and engage that subconscious system.
So, in conclusion, because I think I'm done with this topic for a while, FA's requests for numbers are not irrational, demeaning or negative on their own. If the FA's focus, however, is on the numbers themselves and not the woman herself, than that's a problem. Used as a way to better appreciate the woman herself they can be a useful tool to bridge the time between the meeting through the Net and the meeting in person. From the woman's side it is important that she be comfortable enough with her own body and size to share her numbers with a potential wooer. She also has to be comfortable enough with the guy requesting her to share her numbers, believing that he has an interest in her, not just her numbers as a way to completely define her.
When I started with the Numbers posting I was trying desperately to deal with the apparent conflict between FA's who are focused on fat women's dimensions as expressed in numbers and the BBW's and SSBBW's discomfort with the persistent asking about numbers and creepy sense that the guys are more interested in the numbers than them.
I struggled with the numbers post and the responses I got, almost exclusively from women, were really useful and interesting. While there were a spectrum of view on the need for numbers, the appropriateness of asking about numbers and the feelings they have in being asked for or providing numbers, I sensed there was a common ground, expressed in different ways, but still a common ground.
All of the women expressed that when a relationship was cruising along and seemingly developing well in cyberspace but without a real life meeting, the first meeting in the flesh had an instantaneous poof event. At that first meeting something non-verbal took place. Some call it chemistry, some call it unnameable, others refer to it as getting a sense of the physical, but what sets it apart, an in my view seems to define it, is that there's no conscious, rational component to this event. Something below the self-aware consciousness, whether subconscious, physical, chemical or some combination of all of these things snaps into action and computes a non-verbal test score. Either the guy passes this or doesn't. Some say, I really liked this guy when we talked every day for a month or two online and on the phone.. but when I first met him.. poof, it was all gone. There was nothing there between us and all the time we'd spent getting to know each other was irrelevant.
Guys go through the same thing, but they do it or try to do it up front. If the girl passes this non-verbal, non-rational test, the guy pursues the relationship to determine if there is more than a chemistry attraction between them. And, with the internet, this usual pattern of relationship forming is altered due to the absence of Smellvision/3D cyber connections. And numbers or the interest in getting a woman's numbers is a mediocre substitute for the real world poof event that guys and girls experience. But, it seems to be the closest a guy can get up front to try and engage that subconscious system.
So, in conclusion, because I think I'm done with this topic for a while, FA's requests for numbers are not irrational, demeaning or negative on their own. If the FA's focus, however, is on the numbers themselves and not the woman herself, than that's a problem. Used as a way to better appreciate the woman herself they can be a useful tool to bridge the time between the meeting through the Net and the meeting in person. From the woman's side it is important that she be comfortable enough with her own body and size to share her numbers with a potential wooer. She also has to be comfortable enough with the guy requesting her to share her numbers, believing that he has an interest in her, not just her numbers as a way to completely define her.
posted by hugehugefan at 7:02 AM
4 Comments:
I've yet to go from 'internet relationship' to 'real relationship' (even just in terms of friendship).
I find a certain romance to internet relationships, where you don't really know the other person, and you get to fill in the details. The veil is never lifted, but you get fascinating peeks from time to time.
More than once I've been invited to meet people in real life, and I always declined. Once you meet, that's it, the veil is off, and your relationship has changed forever. Some people have found this maddening, and our online relationships have ended. Others have made the discovery that there is something special about what goes on here that you can't have with 'real' friends.
In my case ... in those ancient, rock-sharpening, pre-Internet days, when chat lines and email were non-existent, I got to know a few guys by chatting with them on the phone. It was the same thing. You had conversations, you got to know each other, you got a sense and a picture of the other person in your mind, set up a meeting and then ... disaster. Only once did I have a meeting with someone after getting to know them on the computer, and the attraction was still strong. But it's always been the guy who hasn't been attracted, not me. Like you said before, huge, the difference between women and men is that a woman's first qualification or test-passer is, does the guy turn me on personality-wise, does he have the same values, would he make a good life partner, etc.? Looks are secondary. And when I fall in love, I fall HARD. It's hard to extricate myself from those feelings when I already have them. That's why these online relationships can be so dangerous. They are so deceptively intimate. You feel like you really know someone, but you don't know them at all. It's a little scary.
I find your ruminations interesting, fan. Those about size, the way it is expressed to a woman, and how to communicate your preferences to a woman in an annonymous relationship because, for all the 'my name is...' information you share, you still are anonymous until you meet. As you say there is always something that either clicks or doesn't. And, it usually is nothing one or the other can control.
What I find interesting, though, is that you seem to think this is unique to an FA. I haven't met a man yet who didn't/doesn't fantacize about his ideal woman, going over every curve, every attribute in his mind, recalling every 'sighting' of a woman who fits that ideal. Men are just plain more visual than women--a generalization I know, but it tends to be true. Women, a generalization again, are more likely to consider personal attributes and the size of a man's wallet (okay, penis too). LOL (not me said the spider to the fly)
I think you hit the nail on the head when you--and others--speak of the fact that bbw and ssbbw have been so judged by their measurements in society that they are uncomfortable talking about them as a subject. It is also part of why we hate to give out our 'numbers' to someone we just met. We are so tired of being rejected based on something so inconsequential (I know men don't always find it so inconsequential although I honestly don't understand why. I just have to accept that it is.). I just once would like to be the object of someone's desire simply because I radiate beauty from within regardless of the size of my stomach.
A question: why are men so afraid to just meet and see what will happen? Again, are THEY afraid of rejection too? Let's get it out of the way before we get emotionally involved. I know women who get stuck on physical traits too: he has to be tall, dark hair, a big house, a fast car, etc., ad nauseum.
It also brings up another issue. Size and shape are uncontrollable factors. Just because I weigh 250 today (or whatever) doesn't mean I will weigh that tomorrow, beyond the normal 10 lb basic give or take. If a person is so fixed on me being a particular size that he can't be attracted to me if that changes, does that mean if I all of a sudden lose 100 lbs through no 'fault' of my own, he will stop loving me? It is a very tenuous position.
It happens in both directions. Men who love thin women are the same way. If she gains 50 lbs he stops being attracted to her and his love withers. Somehow that just doesn't seem right.
What is wrong with our culture today if our love is so fickle? Sorry if I sound bitter or judgmental, but it really bothers me.
Jabberwocky
Your comments are wonderfully expressive and very perceptive. The answer to your questions of why are not answerable in my view. It's more a matter of guys and gals just being different. To try and force a guy to change the way he acquires and develops a relationship would be as difficult as getting a gal to do the same. In other words, not worth the effort.
But that doesn't mean that we have to stop trying. Perhaps it might make it better if you think of it this way. If a guy insists on a gal having a very abundant belly is it better for him to discover that your belly is not up to his 'size requirement' up front and neither of you investing time and self in nurturing a relationship, or is it better to take the relationship to a deep stage and then discover on meeting that you just don't have the ponderous pannus that such a fellow needs to tickle his fancy.
There is no simple answer, merely simple questions.
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